O'Keefes

[micheldignand]

I dropped into the brand spanking new O'Keefes hut a few weeks ago... it would have been about the 25th of October, a cold, miserable day trying hard to snow in a rising wind.

I was very impressed with the new hut - so clean, so tidy, so well-organised. I was glad it had been sited away from the trees and its original site: perhaps it will survive future fires, though at the moment there seems little to prevent flying embers from getting underneath the hut.

I do have a couple of comments, though, that might seem churlish given the efforts made. After all, I didn't volunteer my help to re-build, nor did I comment on the plans.

So let's look at two items, the first being urgent (although I note that right from the start people have commented in the hut log book about these issues... let's hope someone is reading them!).

The nice new toilet is very conveniently placed not far from the hut door. Unfortunately someone decided that a good place for it would be in that convenient gully... you know, the one that takes storm-water down to the creek?  There had been a great deal of rain in the weeks before my visit, and... that's right, you guessed it, the gully was carrying a healthy stream of rainwater towards the toilet, and leaving it rather less than healthily, carrying the contents of the loo right down to the creek.

I guess this could be regarded as a bit of a blunder, and no doubt one which someone might choose to rectify ASAP?

The second point relates to the wonderful fireplace. Beautifully built by a craftsman, by the look of it. But clearly not a chimney maker.

I've written to KHA before about fireplaces. You could even say I have ranted about them. Look, open fireplaces look nice, but do almost nothing to warm huts. Virtually all the heat produced by the fire goes straight up the chimney, and cold air is sucked into the hut to replace it.

There are ways to make an open fire a little more efficient, but none of the crudely built fireplaces in any of the huts goes anywhere near this.

Users of the huts in winter burn huge amounts of timber in an effort to warm the huts, with the frequent effect of burning the hut down (Broken Dam, for instance).

The only sensible approach to warming huts is to use pot-bellied stoves, and they should not be placed in a fireplace, but preferably in the middle of the room to be heated (Derschkos, Schlink, Horse camp to name a few).

I'll be happy to discuss these issues... please comment.

Cheers,

Michel

[KHA HMO South]

Thanks for your comment Michel.

Did you happen to find the lid of the camp oven I donated to the hut? I last I heard it was used as a rubbish container and the lid missing.

While acknowledging all you say in your post, the primary justification for rebuilding the huts is to conserve the cultural heritage values they represent. Unfortunately for keen (obsessed?) skiers like myself, our convenience and comfort was not on the list of justifications.   Requests to improve these will probably not get very far.

But that doesn't mean we can't be practical, we are working with NPWS to fix those things you point out, especially the toilet which KHA has no resources to fix. There are a few other problems with water getting in on the west wall, which NPWS workers will have a look at this season. I understand the hut fireplace smokes badly and I am working on potential fixes, what do members think of a pot bellied stove like the one in Valentine?

Your KHA committee is very small, made up of volunteers, who desperately need more help to coordinate the associations work. One of the most difficult problems is communication between the Committee and members, hopefully this forum will help change that.

HMO South

[micheldignand]

No, didn't find your lid, I'm afraid.

I did take some photos, though, which I can upload (when I find out how to do that).

Several of your points are well taken. The conservation Vs shelter issue has to be seen as a red herring; If we were interested in conservation, we would rebuild exact replicas of the original, and while this is so far the first rebuild I have seen, it's far from being a replica.

The rather beautiful fireplace, of course, is a million miles from being like the original, except that it is as big and as inefficient as the original.

I would have said the issue needs to be revisited, but then I'm not on the committee, am I?

However, I've just volunteered to join the Pretty Plain re-build for a week in late January, so I expect to have a more educated view on all of this by the end of that stint.

Cheers,

Michel

[KHA HMO South]

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to start this discussion Michel. I'm sure you will enjoy helping at Pretty Plain.

How can KHA gain better influence the design of huts without adversely affecting their heritage status?
How should KHA carry out its work avoiding accusations of 'doing up huts'?

KHA members hold a broad specturm of views, I believe a majority of members would prefer that the huts are maintained as close as possible to the original and not 'improved'. Most members enjoy the experience of draughty buildings, resident wildlife, utilitarian furniture as commemorated in countless logbook entries.

There is now an alternative to joining the committee, members can join informal subcommittees to help with specific tasks without onerous committee responsibilities. More information on this thread

[micheldignand]

I can well understand that there are many views on the huts, as there are with any subject. Seems, though, that it'll be difficult to make anyone happy.

There is, of course, the difficult question about exactly which moment in time we are hoping to conserve.

I'll leave all that, though, for the moment, and wait until I have a more educated view (after my stint at Pretty Plain)

For the time being, I'm wondering how to upload a photo? When I click the 'insert image' icon, I get the tags, but no box asking me to point to the image I want to upload, which I guess is the usual way things are done. I've tried cutting and pasting, and that won't work. Any ideas?

Cheers,

Michel

[KHA HMO South]

Michel,

That probably requires a separate post in the Forum section.

You can do it now via a link to your own photos if you publish them on your own site, I use photobucket

You can then insert a link to the photo in your post, see the forum help

[SimonInAustralia]

I visited O'Keefe's Hut last winter, and experienced issues with the fire.

It seems that the hut is so well put together, that there is no air leaking in when the door is closed.

This causes smoke from the fire to fill the room, as there is no incoming air to allow the heat of the fire to draw the smoke up and out of the chimney.

The only option is to prop the hut door open slightly, to allow air to enter, and therefore the smoke to go up the chimney as it should.

The problem with this is that there is a cold stream of air coming in the door, through the room, and up the chimney, which means the room does not heat up at all.

There needs to be some sort of air intake/flue added to the fireplace, to allow air to enter, and smoke to go up the chimney, without the door being propped open.

Thanks for the hut rebuild, it's a great hut, just needs some issues like this to be addressed.

[KHA HMO South]

Having helped lay the chimney foundations I agree it is a very well built hut, no leaks like the old hut!

I haven't been in it in winter (yet!) so I don't know what the answer is; drill air vent holes in the sides of the chimney base? Build a smaller fire? Cut 2" off the bottom of the door?

There are a broad range of views among KHA members and other park users; from no fires to putting in a stove. We also have to consider the heritage guidelines, the purpose of the new hut is to 'recognises the heritage' of the people who lived and worked here that built it, it's not there to provide comfort to skiiers.

There is a good stove like the new Masport 'Fatso' in Valentine hut. This would work by reducing the size of the fire, reducing the amount of air required to what does leak in with the door shut. It would also reduce the risk of buring the hut down and conserve firewood, not that there is any shortage. You could cook on it too.


Photo: Masport website

But it's not up to me, NPWS would have to make a determination based on the Heritage study that recommended the hut be rebuilt and their management perogatives.