Man From Snowy River

[KHA_History]

Many of KHA's membership, Monaro families and Australians generally are interested in the question, "Who was the man from Snowy River". Here are some views. I suggest you start reading from the bottom of the email string.
Readers may wish to add their comments.

Many thanks for your approval to reproduce Charlie McKeahnie's photo.  I have just received Cataloguing-in-publication information for inclusion from the National Library and hope to have my small, non-academic, publication available shortly. 
 
The Men from Snowy River, by John Trengrove

The Characters of Banjo Paterson
& Waltzing Matilda’s origins.

ISBN 978-0-9806663-0-4 (pbk.).

The aim of my booklet, The Men from Snowy River, is to convey a definable side of Australia’s cultural heritage that I perceive developed on the Monaro and in the Snowy Mountains of New South Wales from the early 1830s, and the relationship of this heritage to that portrayed in three of Banjo Paterson’s enduring works written in the latter part of the same century.  Paterson picked up on this ethos, and conveyed it through persons and events, real or conceived which have provided impetus to it.  His portrayal of persons through veiled identities and places has ensured continuing interest in his work through ongoing discussion and debate. 

As interesting as these may be, the booklet is not intended to explore any discussion or debate, which is best left to others more informed than me, but rather utilize some of the actual characters and events which have emerged through these ideas and opinions, and the passing of time, thereby providing a further window, for general and young readers, into our mountain cultural heritage.

A draft copy of this booklet was presented in March 2008 to Ted and Helen Taylor for comment.  They both encouraged it to be published.

 
 
Thank you once again, with kind and warm regards,
John

G'day all,
Tom Barry has sent in the following and has agreed for me to send out. The man from Snowy River rides on, and so do the different viewpoints. We each can make up our own minds and enjoy doing so.
Graham

From: Tom Barry

So the myth of the myth goes on. First up if any one reads the poem they will see that “the Man”,  was the typical “quiet achiever”. He didn’t even tell anyone his name let alone anything about himself. All the old timers that I ever heard talk about Jack Riley said that he was a great “Blowhard” who was forever “cracking his own whip”.  My father told me that old John Barry who took up the NSW side of Groggin, in about 1852, took pity on Riley when he came out of Jail for horse theft and allowed him to camp in a hut over there and catch possums.  It is generally accepted that the Man was a composite character inspired by the horsemanship of many of the great Snowy Mountain riders, Cochran, McKeachnie, Spencer, any number of Pendergasts & Woodhouses, etc. in fact there are as many claimants of M.F.S.R as there descendants of the man who made Kelly’s armour. 

Let us celebrate the tradition and heritage  of an area and an era that produced some of the greatest horsemen in the history of this great nation and not distort that history by further honoring an old Blow Hard that one old timer said “He was just good enough horseman to ride around the milkers or pinch a horse belonging to someone else as long as it was quiet enough.” 

Riley may have been born over here but if they take off the rose coloured glasses they will find he hardly fits the bill in any way.

Regards

Tom Barry


From: Graham Scully [mailto:scullymobs@netspeed.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 June 2009 1:46 PM
To: undisclosed recipients
Subject: Re: Fw: Jack Riley's Hut

WHO WAS THE MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER?

In late March this newsletter mentioned a proposed  visit to Jack Rileys hut site and there has been interesting responses. David Scott sent extracts from portion (1884) and parish maps (1888-1903) showing holdings by a John Riley at Tom Groggin, Noel Gough (see below) reported on his research and Paula Thompsett of Vic Huts High Country Huts Ass'n sent in Richard Hubbard's contact details which have been sent to Neville Locker for his continuing research.

Neville has been researching for many years and has argued that "The Man" is in fact Charlie McKeachnie, a skilled rider from the Adaminaby area. Nevlee has published a small book summarising the primary documentary evidence and other arguments for his case.

Copies of his book, "A Hundred Year Old Mystery, Who was the Man From Snowy River?" can be obtained for $10.00 by writing to

Neville Locker, Happy Valley, Adaminaby, NSW 2629 and enclosing your postal address.

Happy reading,
Graham

I have made several trips to this hut with the Nankervis brothers, Ken  Jim, also the previous managers of Tom Groggin stn.I had a photo of the site, just stones from the fireplace. this clearly matched up with the surrounding mts. ken - they confessed to buning down the hut when their fuel reduction fire got out of control. This happened in 1943.Craig Smith knows and was approached to consider erecting some heritage signage on the site but this was not accepted  on the grounds of theft and site  damage

Ritchard Hubbard, Corryong, has all my collective documents and newspaper articles to assist in his research.

Good to be of some help

Regards

Noel Gough

[KHA_History]

Gwen Hubert, nee Wellsmore, sent in this comment to the debate today
Hi Graham,
Thanks for passing on Tom Barry's comments re Jack Riley. Tom would know, of
course, what he is talking about.I totally agree with Tom Barry. Perhaps you
would be interested in what the author of "The Man" said about the poem.

From the introductory page xxiii of the book "Singer of the Bush" being one
of two volumes cnmtaining the Complete Works of A.B.Paterson 1885 -1900,
collected and introduced by Rosamund Campbell and Phillipa Harvie, grand
daughters of Andrew Barton Paterson, I quote:

"The Man" was a fictional character, and Paterson made that plain, saying
that he did not intend to describe any one man or incident. Unquote.

Paterson wrote an article about brumby running, describing the thrill of the
chase and using some of the language he put in the poem. The grand daughters
placed the story about running brumbys next to the poem in the book,for
comparison purposes. Patterson must have been somewhat surprised when his
poem captured the imagination of so many Australians, and he would be even
more surprised to find that we are still talking about "The Man" in 2009!

Regards Gwen Hubert

[KHA_History]

An Open Email to Tom

Tom Barry in his amusing 'So the myth of the myth goes on' (Jack Riley's Hut, email dated 3 June 2009) adds yet another myth. Or is it ?

The KHA is a broad church with some 620 Individual/Family Members and some 30 Affiliate Members. We have a Huts and History Group led by our esteemed Member, Graham Scully, beavering away at evidence-based research on all matters that interest them and interest other Members on High Country Huts, People and Places.

We also have our 'Tall Stories' Group, led by our other esteemed Member, Harry Hill where stories - tall, short, true or false, are yet embellished once again. And again. The oral and written publication of these stories that are readily taken in by gullible listeners and readers ensure that the tradition of a 'good yarn' continues.

Tom's story is but an interpretation of the poem embellished for all its worth with a character assassination of the dearly departed Jack Riley. Poor Jack must turn in his grave. All those truths, lies and distortions that have been uttered about him. 'Jailed for horse theft, cracking his own whip, just good enough horseman, pinched a horse', and 'honouring an old BlowHard' must be very hard to bear.

Jack's lack of horsemanship may at times be shared by anyone at some time. That small and slight 'boy'; that Harrison, that Paterson or even Tom (if a horse rider) and myself may well be accused, rightly or wrongly. Unfortunately Jack is dead and as in life as an illiterate person and a poor speaker, can't defend himself.

Tom - as an evidenced based researcher of our Huts and History Group, you fail. As a prospective Tall Stories Group member, you may fit admirably. Please, become a member of the KHA and join that Group. Our numbers in the Tall Stories Group are sadly depleted and we need you.

Regards

Carl Bazeley, KHA President

PS Members and Supporters - Who was this John (Jack) Riley ? Why was he on a 40 acre selection ? at Tom Groggin ? Did he spend time in gaol ? Was he the Man or some Blowhard as Tom reports ?  Has Tom Barry got it right ?

I want to see the evidence, Is there any Member or Supporter willing to provide it ?

[KHA_History]

G’day Graham

Carl Bazeley appears to be a person who prefers things to be orderly and classified. I have been classified as a teller and embellisher of “Tall Stories.” No doubt he has strong evidence on which to base this classification.

What constitutes evidence? In matters of history do we disregard our oral history and believe only written records as evidence? Carl laments that “Unfortunately Jack is dead and as in life as an illiterate person and a poor speaker, can't defend himself.”  Do we lament this particular situation with Jack but coldly disregard all other illiterate, poor speakers; thereby ignoring our oral history? (Tall tales)

Do we only accept as evidence the writings of literate well spoken people? If so then we accept the writings of Tom Mitchell as being Gospel and we retire from the field.

However, as any person who has had any experience in seeking evidence to establish historical fact will find out, once an incorrect statement has been written into the records then it is virtually impossible to expunge it. (How does this mere embellisher of Tall Stories know that?, My wife experienced it on many occasions.)

As a very literate, well spoken Member of Parliament, Tom Mitchell dictated that it be inscribed in stone that “Jack Riley was the Man From Snowy River.“  (Evidence; Head Stone Corryong Cemetery).

What was Mitchells evidence to back this decree? (Tall Stories mainly told to him by Riley.)

Do we now, as less literate, poor speakers and teller of tall tales, bend the knee before the mighty words of the Lord of Towong, do we accept his creation or do we fight on to defend the rights of the other heroes created by this great ballad? Spencer, Cochran, Cosgrove, Pendergast, Woodhouse , McKeachnie, Pierce et.al. Many of whom were “illiterate, poor speakers”. They are the our true heroes and are the inspiration for this legend.

SEEKING EVIDENCE: Go to the “scene of the crime” The poem itself. One of the great strengths of this ballad is the magnificent pen portrait of the “Man”. (Carl, note that he was never referred to as a “boy” He was not criticized by “The Old Man”  It was the ability of his horse that was questioned.) He spoke not a word in his own defense. He speaks not a word during the entire episode. He never even told them his name. He was the archetypical “quiet achiever.”  The Man was a natural leader who didn’t hesitate when “even Clancy took a pull.”  He was totally self reliant. “and alone and unassisted he brought them back.”  As you read, develop an image of “The Man”

Go to the web site of the Corryong Event and read how they say of Riley “He enjoyed a good yarn and a few ales.” How does that fit the picture? What was Rileys association with The Snowy River? Did he “hail from Snowy River up by Kosciusko side?” If Paterson met Riley when Riley was old and living at Groggin and was then inspired to write the poem about Riley why not the Murray River?

Go to the web site of the National Library and seek evidence. You may even choose to disregard the evidence of Gwen Hubert as hearsay, (Gwen is the daughter of another true Snowy Mountain Legend, Ossie Wellsmore, who passed away a couple of years ago at the age of 100+, and knew many of the people of the area and era in question.)

It is generally accepted that Riley was a tailor. Was this trade taught in jails? 

The people of Corryong do a magnificent job in promoting the great Legend of the Man From Snowy River. I admire and applaud them for that. One thing is certain, when you read the poem, and that is that when the “Run” took place, it did not take place on or near the Snowy River, it well may have taken place at Corryong. There is a long history of the association between Corryong and this side of the mountains and the Upper Murray horsemen were second to none, except for  The Man From Snowy River.

Let the debate rage.

Tom Barry

[Narelle]

Relevant to this debate is an article published in the Sydney Mail, 1938.
It is quoted with some introductory background here:
http://khuts.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78:sydney-morning-herald-article-the-men-from-snowy-river&catid=53:poetry&Itemid=74

If any interested member would care to do it - the original article may be available at the National Library of Australia, as a microfiche.
A copy of the original could be attached to the above article.